Viking
Seniorveteran
Innlegg: 1968
Registrert: 17-11-2005
Brukeren er frakoblet
Humør: Prikkbelastning: * * * * *
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Romerbrev var ikke tiltenkt romere.
Paulus skrev til det "tapte får av Israel" da han skrev det såkallte romerbrevet, ikke til hedningene i Roma.
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First. let’s take the so called Epistle to the Romans. To whom does Paul address it? Romans 1:7 shows that it is addressed to those persons in Rome
who are called saints. Yes I know that your King James Bible says called to be saints. But, you will notice that the words to be are in italic type
which shows that these two words were NOT IN THE ORIGINAL WRITING. The translators added them in order to make it correspond with what the translators
thought Paul should have said. But let's take Paul at his own word, what he actually did write instead of what somebody else substituted for it.
Remember that Paul was a very well educated man who knew the Scriptures well. Paul knew that a saint was not somebody who would be named such by the
church in the dark ages, several centuries after Paul wrote because the so called saint had done some deed of piety. Do you know who all of the saints
are? Paul knew because he knew the Psalms. In the first place, what does saint mean? It means set apart or consecrated to the service of Yahweh. It is
used in the Bible almost exclusively of people as members of a class, rather than as individuals. It is used to describe the status of Yahweh's people
Israel.
Therefore Psalm 148:14 tells us who all of Yahweh's saints are.Not just some of them but all of them. It says:
"He also exalteth the horn of his people, the praise of all His saints, even of the children of Israel, a people near unto Him".
Paul knew them so when he addressed any of his epistles to saints, you know Paul was writing to Israelites.
In the Epistle to the Romans, as it is WRONGLY NAMED in your Bible (for Paul didn't call it that, but the translators did), Paul says he is writing
"To all that be in Rome, beloved of Yahweh, called saints." Since all of the saints are Israelites according to the Bible, which Paul knew very well,
we know that he was not just writing to Romans in general.
Nero, for example, was Roman. In fact, Nero was emperor at the time Paul wrote this epistle and we may be sure that Paul never considered Nero a
saint. These saints are also identified as called. Paul knew whom Yahweh had called. Isaiah 41:8-9 tells us:
"But thou Israel art My servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend. Thou whom I have taken from the ends of the earth and called
thee from the chief men thereof and said unto thee, Thou art My servant I have chosen thee and not cast thee away."
Isaiah 51:2 instructs us:
"Look unto Abraham your Father and unto Sarah that bore you, for I called him alone, and blessed him and increased him."
Paul well knew that Yahweh had called and predestinated His people Israel to be the people who are consecrated to his service, which is just what the
word saint means. Therefore in Romans 8:30 Paul says:
"Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called:and whom He called, He also justified; and whom He justified, them He also glorified."
Similarly, Paul writes to the saints in various other cities. I Corinthians 1:2, II Corinthians 1:1, Ephesians 1:1, Philippians 1:1, Colossians 1:2,
24-26 and Philemon verse 5 - all these clearly state that Paul was writing to those who are the saints in those various cities. Paul knew that the
saints, the Israelites, were the people to whom Yahweh's message was addressed, the people in whom the message must take root, that they should be
called to His service as Yahweh had declared from the beginning. Therefoe, it was to them that Paul wrote and not to the Gentiles in general.
Let's examine the Epistle to the Romans still more closely. Romans is generally regarded as supremely the book written to the Gentiles. It might
surprise you to know that there is no such word as Gentile in the Bible in its original language. Oh yes, I know that you can find it in the King
James Bible, also in the less accurate of the modern English translations. It was never in the original languages and has been put in by the
translators. Neither Hebrew nor Greek has such a word as Gentile, nor any word which is equivalent to it. The word Gentile comes from the latin word
gentilis which means one who is not a Roman citizen. If you were to use the word accurately, you would have to say that Yashua and all of His
disciples were Gentiles for none of them were Roman citizens.Paul was the only one of the Apostles who was not a Gentile for Paul was a Roman citizen.
But what does the Bible say in the original languages in which it was written?
In the Old Testament, which was written in Hebrew, whenever you see the word Gentile in your English Bible, the Hebrew used the word goy, if it was in
the singular, or the plural form of it, goyim. This word means precisely nation and nothing else. Remember Yahweh told Abraham in Genesis 17:6 "I will
make nations of thee". In the Hebrew, Yahweh said "I will make goyim of thee". It would have been utterly too silly to translate this I will make
Gentiles of your descendants. The translators translated it correctly here as nations. You remember when the twins Jacob and Esau were still in the
womb of Rebekah, their mother, they struggled together and she prayed to Yahweh to tell her why this was so and Yahweh answered her "Two nations are
in thy womb". In the Hebrew original this says "Two goyim are in thy womb". Certainly Yahweh never told her that two Gentiles are in thy womb. Here
the translators had to translate it correctly as nations. But this is exactly the same word which they translate Gentiles in many other places.
The New Testament, which most of you have, was translated from manuscripts written in the Greek language. Whenever, in your New Testament, you see the
word Gentile, the word in the Greek was ethnos. Ethnos means nation just as the Hebrew word goy does, in many places. It would have been silly to
translate it Gentile so the translators had to use the correct word nation. For example, in Luke 7:1-10 we read that a certain Roman officer, a
centurion, had a servant who was dying. The centurion asked some elders of the Jews to intercede for him with Yashua and ask him to heal his servant.
The Jews did urgeOnly to Israelites could he have said this with the slightest spark of truth.
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Link: http://ensignmessage.com/archives/israelnt.html
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[Redigert den 13-1-2008 av Viking]
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Gunnar
Grunnlegger
Innlegg: 1390
Registrert: 16-7-2003
Brukeren er frakoblet
Humør: Liten mann, med en stor Gud.
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| Sitat: | Opprinnelig postet av Viking
Paulus skrev til det "tapte får av Israel" da han skrev det såkallte romerbrevet, ikke til hedningene i Roma.
| Sitat: |
First. let’s take the so called Epistle to the Romans. To whom does Paul address it? Romans 1:7 shows that it is addressed to those persons in Rome
who are called saints. Yes I know that your King James Bible says called to be saints. But, you will notice that the words to be are in italic type
which shows that these two words were NOT IN THE ORIGINAL WRITING. The translators added them in order to make it correspond with what the translators
thought Paul should have said. But let's take Paul at his own word, what he actually did write instead of what somebody else substituted for it.
Remember that Paul was a very well educated man who knew the Scriptures well. Paul knew that a saint was not somebody who would be named such by the
church in the dark ages, several centuries after Paul wrote because the so called saint had done some deed of piety. Do you know who all of the saints
are? Paul knew because he knew the Psalms. In the first place, what does saint mean? It means set apart or consecrated to the service of Yahweh. It is
used in the Bible almost exclusively of people as members of a class, rather than as individuals. It is used to describe the status of Yahweh's people
Israel.
Therefore Psalm 148:14 tells us who all of Yahweh's saints are.Not just some of them but all of them. It says:
"He also exalteth the horn of his people, the praise of all His saints, even of the children of Israel, a people near unto Him".
Paul knew them so when he addressed any of his epistles to saints, you know Paul was writing to Israelites.
In the Epistle to the Romans, as it is WRONGLY NAMED in your Bible (for Paul didn't call it that, but the translators did), Paul says he is writing
"To all that be in Rome, beloved of Yahweh, called saints." Since all of the saints are Israelites according to the Bible, which Paul knew very well,
we know that he was not just writing to Romans in general.
Nero, for example, was Roman. In fact, Nero was emperor at the time Paul wrote this epistle and we may be sure that Paul never considered Nero a
saint. These saints are also identified as called. Paul knew whom Yahweh had called. Isaiah 41:8-9 tells us:
"But thou Israel art My servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend. Thou whom I have taken from the ends of the earth and called
thee from the chief men thereof and said unto thee, Thou art My servant I have chosen thee and not cast thee away."
Isaiah 51:2 instructs us:
"Look unto Abraham your Father and unto Sarah that bore you, for I called him alone, and blessed him and increased him."
Paul well knew that Yahweh had called and predestinated His people Israel to be the people who are consecrated to his service, which is just what the
word saint means. Therefore in Romans 8:30 Paul says:
"Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called:and whom He called, He also justified; and whom He justified, them He also glorified."
Similarly, Paul writes to the saints in various other cities. I Corinthians 1:2, II Corinthians 1:1, Ephesians 1:1, Philippians 1:1, Colossians 1:2,
24-26 and Philemon verse 5 - all these clearly state that Paul was writing to those who are the saints in those various cities. Paul knew that the
saints, the Israelites, were the people to whom Yahweh's message was addressed, the people in whom the message must take root, that they should be
called to His service as Yahweh had declared from the beginning. Therefoe, it was to them that Paul wrote and not to the Gentiles in general.
Let's examine the Epistle to the Romans still more closely. Romans is generally regarded as supremely the book written to the Gentiles. It might
surprise you to know that there is no such word as Gentile in the Bible in its original language. Oh yes, I know that you can find it in the King
James Bible, also in the less accurate of the modern English translations. It was never in the original languages and has been put in by the
translators. Neither Hebrew nor Greek has such a word as Gentile, nor any word which is equivalent to it. The word Gentile comes from the latin word
gentilis which means one who is not a Roman citizen. If you were to use the word accurately, you would have to say that Yashua and all of His
disciples were Gentiles for none of them were Roman citizens.Paul was the only one of the Apostles who was not a Gentile for Paul was a Roman citizen.
But what does the Bible say in the original languages in which it was written?
In the Old Testament, which was written in Hebrew, whenever you see the word Gentile in your English Bible, the Hebrew used the word goy, if it was in
the singular, or the plural form of it, goyim. This word means precisely nation and nothing else. Remember Yahweh told Abraham in Genesis 17:6 "I will
make nations of thee". In the Hebrew, Yahweh said "I will make goyim of thee". It would have been utterly too silly to translate this I will make
Gentiles of your descendants. The translators translated it correctly here as nations. You remember when the twins Jacob and Esau were still in the
womb of Rebekah, their mother, they struggled together and she prayed to Yahweh to tell her why this was so and Yahweh answered her "Two nations are
in thy womb". In the Hebrew original this says "Two goyim are in thy womb". Certainly Yahweh never told her that two Gentiles are in thy womb. Here
the translators had to translate it correctly as nations. But this is exactly the same word which they translate Gentiles in many other places.
The New Testament, which most of you have, was translated from manuscripts written in the Greek language. Whenever, in your New Testament, you see the
word Gentile, the word in the Greek was ethnos. Ethnos means nation just as the Hebrew word goy does, in many places. It would have been silly to
translate it Gentile so the translators had to use the correct word nation. For example, in Luke 7:1-10 we read that a certain Roman officer, a
centurion, had a servant who was dying. The centurion asked some elders of the Jews to intercede for him with Yashua and ask him to heal his servant.
The Jews did urgeOnly to Israelites could he have said this with the slightest spark of truth. |
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Hvis vi forutsetter at artikkelen ovenfor er riktig, hvilken praktisk betydning mener du det har for dem som leser bibelen i dag?
Jeg oppfatter hele artikkelen som en sammenblanding av den gamle og nye pakt. Ja Israel ble kalt "saints" (hellige) fram til Jesu korsfestelse og
oppstandelse, men etter den tid, så er enhver kristen enten det er jøde eller greker en del av de hellige.
Litt overforenklet så mener jeg at artikkelforfatteren tar feil i premissene bak sitt poeng om hvorfor det absolutt MÅ være til Israels folk alene at
Romerbrevet ble skrevet. Hadde det vært i den gamle pakt så ville jeg kanskje begynt å bli enig med ham, men Paulus selv gjør et stort poeng nettopp i
Romerbrevet, om at forskjellen mellom Jøde og hedning er utvisket i Jesus Kristus.
Jødene er ikke lenger "de hellige" etter Jesu korsfestelse, så lenge de ikke tror på Jesus som Herre. De Jøder som har blitt kristne fram til i dag
derfor stilles på lik linje med hedningekristne og blir ikke oppdelt i et A og B lag slik som artikkelforfatteren synes å forutsette.
Gunnar.
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[Redigert den 13-1-2008 av Gunnar]
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Jon
Seniormedlem
Innlegg: 233
Registrert: 12-2-2007
Brukeren er frakoblet
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[Redigert den 1-11-2013 kl 22:00 av Jon]
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Lance
Veteran
Innlegg: 970
Registrert: 11-4-2005
Bosted: Østfold
Brukeren er frakoblet
Humør: Gud er én
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Uansett hvem som var målgruppen for
Romerbrevet er Paulus sitt budskap
det samme, og i tråd med resten av
Skriften.
Paulus kalte seg forresten hedningenes
apostel, men han hadde bare ett
Evangelium, og det er det samme i dag
for både jøder og hedninger.
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Viking
Seniorveteran
Innlegg: 1968
Registrert: 17-11-2005
Brukeren er frakoblet
Humør: Prikkbelastning: * * * * *
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Av svarene kan en tydelig se at dkk's forfølgelse og doktriner har satt sine spor i folket. Men det er ikke rart, selv i Israel så kan man ikke gi en
definasjon på hvem Guds folk er. Veldig mange mener at det ikke finnes noe spesefikt "Guds folk".
Lignelsen om brudgommen som sendte ut innbydelse til bryllupp opplevet at de innbudte ikke dukket opp. Men det betyr ikke at Israel og Judah ikke
finnes, tvert i mot de eksisterer, men de vil ikke vite av det - akkurat som dere, dere ser på det som en vits, dere "tapte får av Israel".
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